ΑΡΧΕΙΟ ΑΝΑΡΤΗΣΕΩΝ ΤΟΥ MACEDOINE BLOG

alpha.georg@googlemail.com

alpha.georg@googlemail.com
HOLA DOLOR ( ES ) ..:-P

Αρχειοθήκη ιστολογίου

Παρασκευή, 23 Οκτωβρίου 2009

THE TRUTH ABOUT MACEDONIA


IAN GILLAN | 18.07.2003 00:27

MACEDONIAN HISTORY AND THE FORGERS OF ALBANIA-FYROM-BULGARIA

Η αλήθεια για την ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ - μεταφραση στα ελληνικά

The truth about Macedonia...


There is no doupt that ancient Macedonians were Greek. It is thoroughly proved by historic documents and archaeological discoveries which can be found in history books and museums in Greece and arround the world. The most important archeological discovery in Macedonia is the tomb of King Philippos II. It was excavated in Vergina, Greece in 1978 and it proves beyond any doubt the Greekness of ancient Macedonia. All the findings are characteristic of the Greek culture and all the inscriptions are written using the Greek language. Among the discoveries of this tomb is the "Vergina sun" the symbol that FYROM attempted to use on its flag initially.

Facts which prove that ancient Macedonians were Greek people:

• Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language
All the monuments and inscriptions found in the Macedonia are written using the Greek language. Take a look at the archaeological discoveries. There is no historic evidence to suggest that the Macedonians were using a different language.

• Macedonians had Greek names
All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered ancient Macedonian names ending to -ov or -ovski or whatever.

Alexander's name is Greek. The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix alex(=protector) and the word andros(=man) meaning "he who protects men". The prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto=parachute, alexisfairo=bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).

Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo(=friendly to something) and the word ippos(=horse) meaning the man who is friendly to horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).
A detailed list of ancient Macedonian names can be found here.

• The regions of ancient Macedonia had Greek names.
The regions which formed ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Most of these names are used in Greece even today.

• Macedonian architecture was similar to the Greek architecture.
All the buldings found in the Macedonia region have many common characteristics with the ones found in the rest of Greece. Palaces, temples, theaters markets are characteristic sampes of ancient Greek architecture.

• Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks.
Macedonians always fought along with the other Greek city-states against enemies from Asia.

• Macedonians took part in the Olympic games.
It is well known then ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games. For a list of Macedonians who participated in the Olympic Games.

• Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks.
Examples of festivals which were celebrated in Macedonia as well as in other Greek states are the "Hetaireidia", the "Apellaia" and many more.

• Macedonians worshiped the same Gods as the rest of the Greeks.
Several temples dedicated to the Greek Gods have beem discovered in Macedonia and especially in Dion the religious center of ancient Macedonians. It is obvious that the Macedonias worshiped the 12 Olympian Gods as the rest of the Greeks. The Gods were "living" on Mount Olympos which happens to be located in Macedonia. How would that be possible if there was hostility between Macedonians and Greeks? This is another proof that Macedonia was considered a part of Greece.
================================================


• Distortion of the ancient history

The Slavic propaganda is often based on quotes from ancient historians (mainly Greek) who seem to suggest that Macedonia was a different nation. However:


These quotes usualy consist of one or two isolated lines which is misleading. Reading the whole document the meaning is completely different.
The translation is not accurate or some words have been carefully altered to change the meaning.

In this page we will present a number of "mis-interpreted" ancient quotes to prove how the Slavs exploit the ancient sources to dispute the Greek identity of the ancient Macedonians.


Argument: "Herodotus (7.130) speaks of the Thessalians as the first Greeks to come under Persian submission (although the Persians entered Macedonia first), and here using his own words, he clearly exclude the Macedonians from the Greeks. We are therefore, left with the conclusion that Herodotus did not consider the Macedonians as Greeks."

Answer:
The text is wrongly translated. What Herodotus actually says in 7.130.3 is:
“This he said with regard in particular to the sons of Aleues, the Thessalians who were the first Greeks to surrender themselves to the king. Xerxes supposed that when they offered him friendship they spoke for the whole of their nation….”

The Thessalians were the first Greeks to surrender to the Persians NOT to come under Persian submission. This does not exclude the Macedonians from the Greeks as the Macedonians did not surrender to the Persians.

This is what the original Greek document says:

“oti protoi Hellenwn eontes Thessaloi edosan euoutous basilei” (= the first of the Greeks who gave up themselves to the king.)


Argument:"Dimosthenis said that the Macedonians were not Greek"

Answer:
This argument refers to the following quote from the Athenian statesman Dimosthenis (Dimosthenis, Third Philippic, 31)


"... not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honors, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave"
This quote appears to accuse king Philippos of Macedonia as a non-Greek. However the majority of today's historians ascribe these claims to the political differences between Dimosthenis and King Philippos. It is well known that Dimosthenis as a passionate supporter of the Athenian democracy was very concerned about the rise of the Macedonan kingdom.

"Demosthenes' allegations were lent an appearance of credibility by the fact apparent to every observer, that the lifestyle of the Macedonians was different from that of a Greek city state. This alien way of life was however, common to the western Greeks in Epeiros, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, and their fundenmental Greek nationality was never doubted. Only as a consequencce of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the question ever raised at all."
Proffesor M.Errington, "A History of Macedonia", University of California Press, Los Angeles, 1990

"The speeches of Demosthenes, that deal with Philip as the enemy,should not be interpreted as an indication of the barbarian origins of Macedonians, but as an expression of conflict between two different political systems: the democratic system of the city-state (e.g.Athens) versus the monarchy (Kingdom of Macedonia). Personally, I believe that it is the common language, which gives one the opportunity to share a common civilization. Thus the language is the main factor that forms a national identity."
Proffesor Nicholas Hammond, "Macedonian Echo" magazine, February 1993

Also note that the quote does not suggest that the "Macedonians were not Greek" as the Slavs themselves wrongly assert, it only refers to king Philippos.


Argument:"The Philotas trial - Alexander urges Philotas to speak in his native Macedonian language"

Answer:
Another argument they frequently use to prove that the Maceonian were speaking a different language is the so called 'Philotas incident' described by the Roman historian Quintus Curtius Rufus in the "The History of Alexander"

Alexander the Great speaks in front of the Macedones of his army: "The Macedonians are going to judge your case," he said. "Please state whether you will use your native language before them."
Philotas: "Besides the Macedonians, there are many present who, I think, will find what I am going to say easier to understand if I use the language you yourself have been using, your purpose, I believe, being only to enable more people to understand you."
Then the king said: "Do you see how offensive Philotas find even his native language? He alone feels an aversion to learning it. But let him speak as he pleases - only remember he as contemptuous of our way of life as he is of our language".
The Slavic propaganda claims that when Philotas started to speak in Greek Alexander asked him to use his "native Macedonian language". Even if we assume that this episode took place exactly like this, it is still very unclear. Curtius does not make any reference to any specific language. He doesn't refer to a "Macedonian language" at all. This is only an assumption made by the Slavs. There is absolutely no evidence to support this assumption - that Philotas' native language was the "Macedonian language" .
It would be more logical to suggest that Philotas started to speak in Persian (since they were in Persia and it would enable more people to understand... ) and Alexander asked him to speak in Greek - his native language.


Argument:"The ancient historians refer to the Macedonian language as a separate language from the Greek"

Answer: This is typical example of ignorance about the Greek history. In fact there is no ancient document refering explicity to a "Macedonian language". All the ancient documents they quote referring to the "Macedonian language" use the term "Makedonisti" which of course does not mean a different language. It refers to the form of the Greek langauge spoken in Macedonia. Similarly there are ancient documents referring to the Greek dialect of Athens as "Attikisti" or the Greek dialect of Peloponisos as "Peloponisti" etc. Should we assume that there was an Athenian language from that, or that the Athenians were not Greek?


Argument:"Not only that the Macedonians did not worshiped the Greek gods, but also there is not a single temple discovered on the territory of Macedonia which resembles the temples in Greece."

Answer:
Here we have two lies in one sentence!

1. The Macedonians did worship the Greek Gods and there are numerous quotes from the ancient historians which clearly prove that. On the other hand there is absolutely no historical evidence to support that the Macedonians worshiped different Gods than the rest of the Greeks.

2. Several temples in Maceonia were dedicated to the Greek Gods. Here are a few examples:

The temple of Afrodite in Dion
The temple of Eukleia in Vergina
The temple of Zeus in Dodoni


Argument:"The Macedonians did not take part in the Peloponesean war, therefore they were not Greek"

Answer:
The Peloponesean war was a war between two sides Athens and Sparti. A few of their allies took part as well but the vast majority of the Greek states did not participate. The fact that the Macedonians were absent from the Peloponesean war can not be used as an argument against the Greek identity of Macedonia.


Argument:"Pausanias (1.1.3) talks about a war between Greeks and Macedonians: 'Leosthenes at the head of the Athenians and the united Greeks defeated the Macedonians in Boeotia and again outside Thermopylae forced them into Lamia' "

Answer:
This is one of the most audacious attempts by the Slavs to twist the Greek history. A war between two ancient Greek states was a very common phenomenon and it certainly did NOT mean that one of the states was not Greek. The war between Athens and Sparti (known as the Peloponesean war) which lasted for 27 years is well known. Should we assume that either the Athenians or the Spartans were not Greek because tey fought agaist each other?

More examles of wars betwwen the Greek states:


395-386 bc : the Corinthian War: Corinth, Boeotia, Argos and Athens backed by Persia against Sparta.

369 bc : Second invasion of the Peloponnese by Thebes under Epaminondas.

364 bc : Battle of Cynoscephalae. Thebes destroyed Orchomenus.

362 bc : The battle of Mantinea. Thebes under Epaminondas defeated a force of Spartans, Athenians and Mantineans.

356-346 bc : Phocis seized Delphi and provoked the Third Sacred War (Phocis against Thebes, Locris and Thessaly).

It is obvious that a war between the ancient Greek states was a very common phenomenon so a battle between Macedon and Athens can not be used as proof that the Macedonians were not Greek.
=================================================

On the origin of the Macedonians:

The Greek origin of the Macedonians is proven by the vast majority of the ancient historians.
Diodoros of Sicily talks about the links of Alexander to the Greek mythology (Diodoros, Historical Library 17.1.5):


"On his father's side Alexander was a descendant of Heracles and on his mother's he could claim the blood of the Aeacids, so that from his ancestors on both sides he inherited the physical and moral qualities of greatness."
Herodotus confirms that the Macedonians were people of Greek origin (Histories of Herodotus Book 5, paragraph 22.1)


"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know and will prove it in the later part of my history.That they are so has been already adjudged by those who manage the Pan-Hellenic contest at Olympia. "
And later on (Book 8, paragraph 137.1) he verifies it:


"This Alexander was seventh in descent from Perdiccas, who got for himself the tyranny of Macedonia in the way that I will show. Three brothers of the lineage of Temenus came as banished men from Argos to Illyria, Gauanes and Aeropus and Perdiccas; and from Illyria they crossed over into the highlands of Macedonia till they came to the town Lebaea."
Also in the very first book of his "Histories" (paragraph 56.3 ) Herodotus states about the origin of the the Greek people :


"For in the days of king Deucalion it inhabited the land of Phthia, then the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen; driven from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, it settled about Pindus in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the name of Dorian."
Thoukididis also verifies that the Macedonian kings' origin was from the Greek town of Argos (Book 2, 99.3):


"The country on the sea coast, now called Macedonia, was first acquired by Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his ancestors, originally Temenids from Argos."
Aristotelis, the teacher of Alexander the Great says about the rivers in Macedonia (Meteorologika, Book I, Par. 13):


"Of the rivers in the Greek world, the Achelous flows from Pindus, the Inachus from the same mountain; the Strymon, the Nestus, and the Hebrus all three from Scombrus; many rivers, too, flow from Rhodope."
Finally Isocratis states (To Philip, paragraph 32):


"Argos is the land of your fathers, and is entitled to as much consideration at your hands as are your own ancestors;"


On the language of the Macedonians

The Macedonians spoke the Greek language as the ancient authors verify. The Roman writer Titus Livius says : (from "The Foundation of the City", Paragraph 31)


"The Aitolians, the Akarnanians, the Macedonians, men of the same language, are united or disunited by trivial causes that arise from time to time; with aliens, with barbarians, all Greeks wage and will wage eternal war; for they are enemies by the will of nature, which is eternal, and not from reasons that change from day to day."
Didorus of Sicily (17.67.1) says:


"After this Alexander left Dareius's mother, his daughters, and his son in Susa, providing them with persons to teach them the Greek language, and marching on with his army on the fourth day reached the Tigris River. "


On the religion of the Macedonians

The Macedonians had the same religion as the rest of the Greeks, they worshiped the twelve Olympian Gods.

Two quotes from Plutarch's "Alexander"


"Philip, after this vision, sent Chaeron of Megalopolis to consult the oracle of Apollo at Delphi, by which he was commanded to perform sacrifice, and henceforth pay particular honour, above all other gods, to Zeus;"

"He Alexander he Great erected altars, also, to the gods, which the kings of the Praesians even in our time do honour to when they pass the river, and offer sacrifice upon them after the Greek manner."
Diodoros of Sicily also makes clear that the Macedonnians worshiped the twelve Greek Gods:

Histories, Chapter 16, 95.2


"Along with lavish display of every sort, Philip included in the procession statues of the twelve Gods brought with great artistry and adorned with a dazzling show of wealth to strike awe to the beholder, and along with these was conducted a thirteenth statue, suitable for a god, that of Philip himself, so that the king exhibited himself enthroned among the twelve Gods."
Histories, Chapter 16, 91.5-6


"He (King Philip) wanted as many Greeks as possible to take part in the festivities in honour of the gods, and so planned brilliant musical contests and lavish banquets for his friends and guests. Out of all Greece he summoned his personal guest-friends and ordered the members of his court to bring along as many as they could of their acquaintances from abroad."


On the culture of the Macedonians


"Alexandros observed that his soldiers were exhausted with their constant campaigns. ... The hooves of the horses had been worn thin by steady marching. The arms and armour were wearing out, and the Hellenic clothing was quite gone. They had to clothe themselves in materials of the barbarians,..."
(Diodoros of Sicily 17.94.1-2)


On the geography of Macedonian

The great philosopher Aristotelis (Aristotle) considers the rivers in Macedonias as "rivers in the Greek world"


"Of the rivers in the Greek world, the Achelous flows from Pindus, the Inachus from the same mountain; the Strymon, the Nestus, and the Hebrus all three from Scombrus; many rivers, too, flow from Rhodope. ..."
(Aristotelis, Meteorology, Book 1, Par. 13)
and later on he says:


"The deluge in the time of Deucalion, for instance, took place chiefly in the Greek world and in it especially about ancient Hellas, the country about Dodona and the Achelous, a river which has often changed its course. Here the Selli dwelt and those who were formerly called Graeci and now Hellenes..."
(Aristotelis, Meteorology, Book 1, Par. 13)


What did the Macedonians think of themselves?

It is very clear from the surviving ancient sources that the Macedonians considered themselves to be Greeks.

In Herodotus (Book 9, paragraph 45.2) Alexander I , king of Macedonia says:


"... I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery ..."
Alexander III (the Great) talking to the king of the Persians says: (Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II,14,4)


"Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Greece and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury I have been appointed hegemon of the Greeks"
Arrian ("Alexander the Great" 1,16,7) describes the following incident: After winning an important battle in Asia ...
"He Alexander the Great sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: Alexander son of Philip and the Hellenes, except the Lacedaemonians, set up these spoils from the barbarians dwelling in Asia"
(Diodoros of Sicily 16.93.1)
"Every seat in the theater was taken when Philip appeared wearing a white cloak and by his express orders his bodyguard held away from him and followed only at a distance, since he wanted to show publicly that he was protected by the goodwill of all the Hellenes, and had no need of a guard of spearmen."

And from Flavious Josephus (11.8.5) we have the following incident where Alexander clearly considers himself a Greek:


"And when the book of Daniel was showed to him (Alexander the Great) wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended"


What did the rest of the Greeks think?

The ancient Greek people alwayws considered the Macedonians to be Greek as well. This can be easily proved because the Macedonians were members of all the Greek institutions, such as the Delphic amphictiony:

Pausanias writes in his book "Description of Greece" (10.3.3):

"The Phocians were deprived of their share in the Delphic sanctuary and in the Greek assembly, and their votes were given by the Amphictyons to the Macedonians."
and also in his book "Phokis" (8,2 & 4):
"They say that these were the tribes collected by Amphiktyon himself in the Hellenic Assembly: the Macedonians joined and the entire Phocian race In my day there were thirty members: six from each of Nikopolis, Macedonia and Thessaly "
Aeschines (On the Embassy 2.32) gives evidence of the Macedonian king Amyntas taking part at the congress of the Lacedaemonian allies and the other Greeks:

"For at a congress of the Lacedaemonian allies and the other Greeks, in which Amyntas, the father of Philip, being entitled to a seat, was represented by a delegate whose vote was absolutely under his control, he joined the other Greeks in voting to help Athens to recover possession of Amphipolis. As proof of this I presented from the public records the resolution of the Greek congress and the names of those who voted".
Isocratis, one of the most impotant orators of ancient Greece says in his speach "To Philip" addressed to King Philip II of Macedonia (Paragaraph 127):


"Therefore, since the others are so lacking in spirit, I think it is opportune for you to head the war against the King; and, while it is only natural for the other descendants of Heracles, and for men who are under the bonds of their polities and laws, to cleave fondly to that state in which they happen to dwell, it is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom, to consider all Greece your fatherland, as did the founder of your race, and to be as ready to brave perils for her sake as for the things about which you are personally most concerned."
The Sicilian historian Diodoros says in his history about King Philip of Macedonia (Diodoros, Historical Library 16.95.1-2)
"Such was the end of Philip, who had made himself the greatest of the kings in Europe in his time, and because of the extent of his kingdom had made himself a throned companion of the twelve gods. He had ruled twenty-four years. He is known to fame as one who with but the slenderest resources to support his claim to a throne won for himself the greatest empire in the Greek world, while the growth of his position was not due so much to his prowess in arms as to his adroitness and cordiality in diplomacy.
Even the Persians considerd Macedonia a part of Greece! The Persian king Mardonius says : (From the Histories of Herodotus Book 7, Paragraph 9.1-2).


"We know the manner of their battle- we know how weak their power is; already have we subdued their children who dwell in our country, the Ionians, Aeolians, and Dorians. I myself have had experience of these men when I marched against them by the orders of thy father; and though I went as far as Macedonia, and came but a little short of reaching Athens itself, yet not a soul ventured to come out against me to battle. Yet the Greeks are accustomed to wage wars, as I learn, and they do it most senselessly in their wrongheadedness and folly. Since they speak the same language, they should end their disputes by means of heralds or messengers, or by any way rather than fighting; if they must make war upon each other, they should each discover where they are in the strongest position and make the attempt there. The Greek custom, then, is not good; and when I marched as far as the land of Macedonia, it had not come into their minds to fight."
Mardonius marched against the Greeks and he "went as far as Macedonia, and came but a little short of reaching Athens itself". Obviously he considers Macedonia a part of Greece!

=================================================

• Are FYROM's residents Macedonians?
A quick review of the Fyromian web sites wil prove that they seem to be confused themselves:

Some of them believe they are descedants of ancient Macedonians
Some of them beleive that they can consider themeselves Macedonians since they live in a part of what used to be ancient Macedonia
Some of them believe they are Macedonians but not directly linked to ancient Macedonians
Some of them believe they are Macedonians because they are free to call themselves as they like(!!!)
The official web site of the president of FYROM states clearly that these people came to Macedonia at the end 10th century:
"The beginnings of the statehood of the Macedonian Slaves go back to the end of the 10th century and beginning of the 11t, with the creation of Samoil's state."
Link: http://www.president.gov.mk/eng/makedonija.htm

Also the first president of FYROM president Mr. Kiro Gligorov confirmed twice that they are not related to the ancient Macedonians:

"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
(from the Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35. )

"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia. The ancient Macedonians no longer exist, they had disappeared from history long time ago. Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century (A.D)."
(from the Toronto Star newspaper, March 15, 1992)

The following questions are obvious:
Why do you call yourselves "Macedonians" and your language "Macedonian"?
Why do you use ancient Macedonian symbols if they don't belong to you?
The historic truth is that the Slavs descented into the region not before the 6th century long after ancient Macedonia was homogenized with the rest of Greece. They don't have any historical cultural or linguistic ties with ancient Macedonia and they would be realy foolish if they officialy claimed that they did. There is no historic or archaeological evidence connecting them with ancient Macedonia.

In any case occupying 25% of ancient Macedonian land does not give them the right to steal the Macedonian history and culture. The Macedonian civilization was part of the ancient Greek civilization. This is well known and recorded in history books. It is part of Greece's national inheritance and it can not be used by anyone else.

• Why FYROM should not be named "Macedonia"

FYROM's residents have no historical cultural or linguistic ties with ancient Macedonia.
The heart of ancient Macedonia was not in the teritory which FYROM occupies but in the Greek part of Macedonia were all the major archaeological discoveries took place.


The name "Republic of Macedonia implies a teritorial threat against Greece and other countries and it creates a great risk of renewed ethnic conflict in the Balkans.


The area of FYROM was never called "Macedonia" before the 2nd World War. This name was given to the Southern Yugoslavian providence by General Tito aiming to create conflicts in the region and to obtain Greek and Bulgarian teritories. Before the 2nd World War FYROM was called Vardarska.

FYROM's population is a mixture of many different ethnic groups. Only 60% of them are "Macedonians". There is also a large minority of Albanians (30%) and smaller groups of Serbs Turks, Greeks and others.


Ancient Macedonia and its civilization was part of the ancient Greek civilization.


Suggestions

Some suggestions for FYROM's permanent name:
The name this region used since the 2nd world war - Vardarska
The ancient name of the region - Paionia
A name which describes the country geographicaly - Central Balkan Republic

=================================================


• Bibliography about Macedonia
This is a list of books we recomend for further information about Macedonia and its history. The books listed below are written and published by non Greek authors and publishers so that they may not be characterised as biased.

"A history of Macedonia"
by N G L Hammond
and G T Griffith / F W Walbank
Oxford University Press, 1979

"In the Footsteps of Alexander the Great : A Journey from Greece to Asia"
by Michael Wood,
University of California Press, 1997

"A History of Macedonia (Hellenistic Culture and Society)"
by Robert Malcolm Errington and Catherine Errington
University of California Press, 1993

"Alexander the Great and the Hellenistic Empire"
by A R Burn
The Macmillan Co, New York., 1948

"The nature of Alexander"
by Mary Renault
Penguin Books Ltd, 1975

"Griechische Geschichte : von den Anfanfen bis in die romische Kaiserzeit."
by Hermann Bengtson
Verlag C. Beck, Munchen, 1965
IAN GILLAN
url..:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/07/274407.html